If you’re still grinding only Texas Hold’em in 2025, this one might sting a bit.
In a recent episode of Winning The Game of Life, Dan Cates invited Bart Hanson to talk about live exploitative play, realistic win rates, and where the real money sits in today’s games. Unsurprisingly, the conversation drifted into PLO vs Hold’em, and why the future might belong to Pot Limit Omaha, not just Texas Hold’em.
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What you’ll get from this Winning The Game of Life episode
In this episode of Winning The Game of Life, Dan Cates and Bart Hanson go deep on:
- Why playing “pure GTO” in live games often leaves money on the table.
- How people butcher thin value in Texas Hold’em, especially on rivers.
- Bet pacing and bet-sizing patterns that scream “I have one pair, please don’t raise.”
- How rake and flat drops quietly kill small-stakes win rates.
- Why a big chunk of the gambling crowd quietly migrated to Omaha Poker.
- Whether grinding for a living is still realistic, and for who.
If you’re a live reg, an online refugee, or just PLO-curious, this episode of Winning The Game of Life is basically a 70+ minute warning shot: adapt your game selection and skillset, or get left behind.
Watch the conversation (and jump straight to the PLO part)
You can watch the full episode of Winning The Game of Life here:
If you specifically care about PLO vs Hold’em and where Pot Limit Omaha fits into the future of live poker, jump to this timestamp where Dan Cates and Bart Hanson talk about it directly:
Exploitative live poker: when GTO isn’t the highest EV line
Thin value and the river-check that pays the rake
Bart Hanson starts with something painfully simple: people don’t value-bet enough in live Texas Hold’em.
Classic spot: you’ve got a strong hand (set, overpair, better-than-two-pair), your opponent has been driving the action, and you decide to get fancy and go for a river check-raise. In theory, fine. In live practice? Villain checks back two pair or better at absurd frequency… and you win a smaller pot than you should have.
The takeaway from Bart Hanson is brutally straightforward:
- Most live players undervalue bet rivers.
- If you have a strong hand, bet yourself.
- Especially in Texas Hold’em, where the hand strength is often clearer and ranges are narrower than in Pot Limit Omaha.
If you can’t comfortably pull the trigger on thin value in straightforward Texas Hold’em spots, what exactly do you think happens when you sit down at a four-card table and try to navigate way more complex rivers in Pot Limit Omaha?
Live vs online: rake, drop and what win rates really look like
A big chunk of the episode has Dan Cates and Bart Hanson talking about realistic win rates in live poker – and how rake quietly wrecks a lot of dreams.
Bart Hanson explains the California flat drop structure:
- In many cardrooms, instead of a percentage rake, they take a fixed amount once the pot goes to the flop (e.g. $6 + jackpot).
- That’s the same in a small limp pot as in a big pot.
- At small stakes like 1/3, that flat amount can be a brutal percentage of the total pot.
End result: even if you’re good, your theoretical win rate in Texas Hold’em is heavily capped at smaller stakes. He suggests:
- A truly strong 5/10 player might make ~$100/hr in good conditions.
- Many decent 2/5 players will be happy with $25–$35/hr in today’s environment.
Dan Cates pushes on whether that’s really “good money,” especially in high cost-of-living spots. Winning The Game of Life as a podcast often zooms out like this: is the lifestyle, variance and ceiling of live Texas Hold’em grinding really the best use of your time?
Which brings us back to PLO vs Hold’em and why Pot Limit Omaha keeps coming up in this conversation.
Why players migrate to Pot Limit Omaha
Bart Hanson makes a very simple but important point:
- In the 2000s, recreational players could splash around in Texas Hold’em and not get punished immediately.
- Games were looser, people limped garbage, and hold’em lineups were packed with action players.
- Today, people are tighter, more educated, and preflop ranges in Texas Hold’em are much stronger overall.
So what happened to the real gamblers?
They either quit… or moved to Pot Limit Omaha.
In Pot Limit Omaha, they can:
- Play more hands
- “Always have a chance” with four cards and lots of draws.
- Avoid feeling outclassed by people memorising Texas Hold’em charts.
From a PLO vs Hold’em perspective, that’s massive. The most action-heavy, deep-pocketed recreational players often gravitate toward Pot Limit Omaha now, which is exactly why you should learn it.
If you’re new to four cards, start with a proper overview of
👉 Pot Limit Omaha
And if you want somewhere good actually to play, check our roundup of
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Dan Cates’ angle: don’t be a one-game specialist
Throughout the episode, Dan Cates keeps circling back to a theme: adapt or get left behind.
- People under-bluff live, especially on later streets.
- The psychological pressure of live play makes many players default to “safe” lines.
- Game conditions change – rake, regs, formats, local rules – and you need multiple tools to navigate it.
When Dan Cates and Bart Hanson talk about walking into a room and seeing:
- A nitty, reg-heavy 5/10 Texas Hold’em lineup…
- Next to a splashy, rec-heavy Pot Limit Omaha lineup…
…it’s obvious where the smart money sits.
If you only know Texas Hold’em, you are often forced into the worse game in the room. If you’re competent in Pot Limit Omaha too, you can freely choose where the EV is highest.
That’s basically the core strategic message of this Winning The Game of Life episode.
About the podcast: Winning The Game of Life
Winning The Game of Life is Dan Cates’ attempt to merge high-stakes poker, systems thinking and real-world EV. It’s not just hand histories; it’s conversations with people who’ve survived multiple eras of the game.
This episode with Bart Hanson hits three key pillars:
- Exploitative live poker – how people actually play, not how they “should”.
- PLO vs Hold’em – which formats still have room for big live edges.
- Lifestyle & feasibility – whether full-time grinding in 2025+ still makes sense.
If you’re trying to decide where to invest your study time – more solver work for Texas Hold’em, or a serious push into Pot Limit Omaha – this is essential viewing.
Who is Dan Cates?
If you somehow found PLO365 before you found Jungleman:
- Dan Cates is one of the most successful online high-stakes crushers ever, especially in heads-up Texas Hold’em.
- He’s battled in some of the toughest lineups in history, both online and live.
- These days, he’s still playing the biggest games, while hosting Winning The Game of Life and poking at broader life/game-theory questions.
When someone with that background tells you that learning Pot Limit Omaha and having flexibility in PLO vs Hold’em is crucial for long-term success, you should probably listen.
Who is Bart Hanson?
Bart Hanson is basically the opposite end of the spectrum from anonymous solvers:
- Long-time live cash game grinder and coach.
- Founder of Crush Live Poker, with a heavy focus on exploiting real-world tendencies in live Texas Hold’em games.
- Spent years coaching rich recreational players in huge Asia games, helping them lose less (or even win) instead of getting destroyed.
He’s built an entire career out of extracting extra EV from live Texas Hold’em… and even he is loudly pointing at Pot Limit Omaha as a massive opportunity. That should tell you something.
Next steps: if you ignore PLO, you’re punting EV
If you take one thing away from this episode of Winning The Game of Life, let it be this:
Stubbornly playing only Texas Hold’em in 2025+ is basically a long-term tip to the rest of the table.
The action players have migrated. Pot Limit Omaha lineups are often softer, deeper, and more volatile – which is exactly what you want if you know what you’re doing.
Here’s how to stop punting:
- Get a real PLO foundation
Start with our main guide to
👉 Pot Limit Omaha - Use proper study tools
- Deep strategy and full ecosystem: 👉 PLO Mastermind
- Drilling spots and patterns: 👉 PLO Trainer
- Vision-style solver work: 👉 Run It Once
- Modern solver for 2025 and beyond: 👉 PLO Genius
- Change your weekly routine
Take one of your regular Texas Hold’em sessions and switch it to Pot Limit Omaha. Track your results, your comfort level, and the quality of the lineups.
As a PLO enthusiast with nearly 12 years of experience, I’m passionate about breaking down the complexities of Pot Limit Omaha, helping you sharpen your strategy and grow your bankroll – no matter your current level. I also share exclusive bonus and rakeback deals, along with discounts on poker courses and tools, so you can get an extra edge. When I’m not writing, you’ll usually find me online, playing PLO cash games and turbo MTTs.
